- To Change Your Mind - Details Matter
Mold Madness: Neurotoxins Overlooked 1
ADD/ADHD Non-Med Treatment: Neurofeedback
March 26, 2007Mold Madness: Neurotoxins Overlooked 2
April 6, 2007Mold Neurotoxins Matter
Many Molds Are Dangerously Neurotoxic: Sick Buildings Deliver Crippling Brain and Body Blows.
Mold Often Effects Brain Function
“A 1984 World Health Organization report into the syndrome suggested up to 30% of new and remodeled buildings worldwide may be linked to symptoms of Sick Building Syndrome.” Wikipedia
Our experience is that the older, wet, damaged buildings have an even higher incidence of destructive mold pathogens. This problem is not insignificant, is frequently overlooked as contributory to psych problems, and requires a comprehensive medical intervention process.
Louisiana, Mississippi, and the Texas coast are almost completely overwhelmed with toxic mold issues downstream from the hurricanes, – as reported *off the record* by a Captain in Va Beach Fire Department who has made several trips to help in New Orleans with that catastrophe. He reported: “the mold is growing in houses up to the ceilings like large, black cauliflowers.”
The long term implications of mold exposure to a certain subset of the population, outlined in a moment, will stagger the cost of health care and is at this moment is almost completely unrecognized as an important clinical psych syndrome. You can start with the basic book Mold Warriors about Mold by my colleague Ritchie Shoemaker MD, on the Eastern Shore of MD: [More refs later, been to his office in Pocomoke, MD]
An Office Mold Experience – NYC
First a bit more about what mold neurotoxins can do, then a story that will shock you.
I became even more interested in mold after making some significant brain observations in the context of taking a careful mold history in my office working at Amen Clinic DC : Presenting complaint: brain fog, respiratory illness, multiple immune dysregulation issues. The SPECT showed significant scalloping and toxic exposure in a patient from, get this, a super East Side apartment in NYC. Mold is not just in the country! [Read Mold Warriors about a high end apartment complex in metro DC]
The husband of the patient had taken her everywhere, is an experienced downtown Manhattan psychiatrist, so when I saw all the scalloping absent brain injury history I dug deeper. She had multiple autoimmune issues [including exhaustion, rheumatic pains], and 5 families had moved out of the apartment building in the last year because of exposure to mold. When I asked further, black mold constantly appeared in the bathroom and appeared to be in the walls “for years.”
He didn't have symptoms, as the personal variability, just as in celiac disorder, is modified by the immune system and by HLA antibody activities. If the mold can be tagged by HLA it will be excreted. If mold toxins are not tagged the toxins recycle, passing through cell membranes, build up in fat, remain for years, and interfere with fat metabolism in the brain and body. Sounds awful, it is. It will remain toxic in the brain. More about treatments later.
First Some Specific Observations:
Indoor Mold needs four things to grow:
(1) Spores: Both our indoor and outdoor environment have mold spores present. There is no such thing as a mold free environment. Spores need special filters to prevent exposure and are the source of floating, airborne neurotoxins.
(2) Nutrients: The Spores need food, and in the indoor environment these are normally cellulose materials (wood, dust, fabrics, cardboard, paper, etc.)
(3) Moisture Moisture is required to begin the decaying process of the cellulose material by the mold.
(4) Time: Mold growth typically begins between 24 hours and 10 days from the provision of the growing conditions. There is no way to date mold. Wikipedia – Mold
A Striking Va Beach Clinical Example
A 44 yo male arrives in my office with a severe limp, unable to walk a straight line down the hall, using a 4 point cane. Hands are both trembling uncontrollably, deep hacking cough, legs are twitching, brain is a complete fog, got lost coming over and I could not see how he could drive. -Sent by a neurologist who had worked him up for rapid onset of neurological symptoms for the last 4 years. – Sent to me for depression treatment, as many SSRI trials were not effective.
Asked the bowel question and his current *BM factor* was every 3-4 days, with severe bouts of IBS, with IBS the chronic presentation for many years. Clear metabolic issues not addressed, needed workup on that side of matters whatever we did next [see the CMP in the CorePsych Toolkit above].
The patient looked completely overwhelmed, significant dementia symptoms, awash with brain fog, with so much mood instability, anger and suicidal thinking – and the bad news he hasn't been able to work for >2 years, is on disability, and his wife couldn't come to our meeting because money was so tight.
He looked very toxic: So about 10 min into the history I said, “This may sound pretty silly, but do you have mold in your home?” He sucked his wind, paused briefly, and said “My whole house is one big mold bomb from the roof to the side shingles, to the all the walls. My wife has said it is a problem for years, and we have to move.”
He hesitated and then added: “Let me tell you the whole story. About 4 years ago my fuel oil tank in my basement ruptured and about 250 gallons of heating fuel was released in my basement. It seeped into the sub basement, and with that oil barrier the water has collected, and is always present in the basement, we just haven't had time to get it fixed.” [Mold and petrochemical off gases frequently prove damaging to the same individuals.]
We will have several more posts on this subject folks, so stay tuned. Bottom line on this story, he had both toxic petrochemical intoxication and mold intoxication, and after I called his wife during the evaluation she asked the city inspectors what to do with the house.
The very next day inspectors condemned their home on the spot and the family moved. This is only the beginning of a sad correctable situation that had evolved into serious medical and brain issues because we are significantly uninformed about mold neurotoxins. His CMP [Download sample_report_4300_v_01.pdf] was off the chart on almost every single aspect of cellular and metabolic problems, and he is slow to turn around medically – as he is so angry at the world and so forgetful now he is almost untreatable.
Stay tuned on the mold subject.
A place to go for more info regarding testing: Tennessee Mold Consultants have a good reputation with those focused on mold assessment.
cp
18 Comments
[…] and recovery in this amusing article. The effect of environmental pathogens is discussed here. The relationship between Iodine deficiency and mental health is examined here (also here, here and […]
Just wondering if you are better? I am depressed from mold and want to know what to do thank you
I am a moldie family with lot of problem and I do not know where to start. I just called the bioLab to do the testing to get down to what damages already have been done to my daughter and I…It has already slowed our live considerably and mentally… We believe we are at stage II and we are terribly scared.
Please help.
Sally,
The hardest step in mold recognition is that one: recognizing it is a part of the problem. Often mold can be the problem.
This will be oversimplified but consider these steps:
1. Remove the offending challenge one way or another.
2. If impossible, serious mold offenses may require moving out until corrected.
3. Treat any associated immune conditions: e.g. associated gluten or casein challenges will keep the immune system compromised and prevent healing if not directly addresses simultaneously.
4. After diminishing exposure the next steps are complicated and include measuring for nutritional deficiencies, detoxing, healing the gut, healing the body with specific nutritional support
5. Take a look at the ELISA testing here to review additional offenses.
Most people simply think removing the exposure, but healing the immune system and removing parallel insults are important next steps.
cp
Joanie,
Went over to your site, and am linking it for others – just in case some don’t “believe.”
http://knibbedocuments.com/default.aspx
You do believe it when you see it. Don’t look, don’t tell.
One of the glaring subthemes of your story is the profound autoimmunity issue so often seen in chronic mold presentations. Multiple downstream effects appear so generalized it’s hard to unearth the origin of the exposure, thus protecting those in denial, on that end of the economic problem.
First easy thought: only happens to lower income folks. -Can tell you I have seen mold reactions from all levels including the very wealthy caught in building projects during the hurricanes in FL.
Your remarkable story should alert even the most avoidant. Another site with neuropsychiatric documentation:
http://www.bioline.org.br/request?ja05057
Thanks for your comments. One blessing: the Northwest has a number of informed physicians who are trained in the multiple issues present in your comment. Reference the Institute for Functional Medicine:
http://www.functionalmedicine.org/findfmphysician/index.asp
Chuck
Hey Valerie-
Many thanks for your kind remarks. Connections and understanding make a big difference, and, I confess, they are important to me as well.
You already appreciate, regarding your sometimes use of “moldy,” that mold itself can represent the tip of its own iceberg. The mold and the downstream effects all deserve attention.
Said another way, Val, you are more than a “moldy” to this fellow traveler.
Thanks again for your considerate comments.
Chuck
Hi Dr. Parker,
I am one of the “moldies” as we sometimes call ourselves that has been sickened by mold exposure. I do not know if you can comprehend the joy that I have experienced just by reading your article that attributes neurological problems to mold. So many of us have been ridiculed by physicians that just do not seem to have any idea that mold can cause these and other medical issues.
I want to thank you for acknowledging the fact that mold causes illness- I hope that the message will spread through the medical community and we moldies will be able to receive the help we so desperately need.
Sincerely,
Valerie
Deborah,
Thanks so much for your kind remarks and articulate review of the current state of denial and misinformation regarding some in “traditional medicine.” Mold is only one subject wherein the preponderance of the medical community awaits proof from academia. Let me see… do cigarettes cause lung cancer?
How long did we wait for acceptance on that one. Smoking was permitted in NC airports even after clear evidence, but we all had to wait for the “proof” on passive exposure. The wheel turns slowly.
And remember, politics and money, not the docs, held up resolution of that problem.
I said “traditional medicine” earlier because at this moment good news is arriving: the “uninformed group” is rapidly shrinking – likely because of conversations and reports such as yours. It has been my experience that even in the last three years we have seen more acceptance of a variety of topics not previously appreciated, yet not completely “proven.”
All of us docs started because we all want to help people, but politics in medicine can be damaging to one’s personal life, family and income. The standard of care changes more slowly than either the science or line experience.
And line experience changes faster than science. The standard of care is set by what is proven, ultimately by science, by academia, and by money that invests in the proof.
Often the grid of changing ideas is managed by people who don’t want change in the first place.
I remember more than 10 years ago when I was speaking about adult ADD, and the literature had not agreed about it. Close to heresy. [At a meeting last month the evidence regarding Adult ADD is there on many levels.] -And speaking about ADD in the recovering community was like signing your death warrant.
On a more positive note: there are many change agents in medicine who do reach out to try new means of intervention that don’t/won’t/can’t bring harm to the patient.
As an aside, I often wonder when we talk about these matters what Jenner’s colleagues said about him when he discovered smallpox vaccination with the milk maid. Some office evidence may seem anecdotal at first, and certainly all evidence can use objective review.
The challenge comes in chasing down the ideas in open discussions such as this one. What does work? Can we change the way we thought it worked?
Thanks again for your thoughtful reply, and the tox posting, stay tuned for another remarkable mold story on the next post.
Chuck
I have been depressed for ten years from mold in my home, my husband doesnt believe it so I moved out with the kids 21 year old daughtrer who is tired all the time and no motovation, and my 15 year old son who has add, my husband still lives in the house showing lots of signs, Do you know how to get these toxins out of our bodys? i hope you are still around thank you Tracy if at all possible could you call me my # IS 2064098103
Tracy,
Best to have a full on mold eval of your home, available in most towns as there are those who make a living cleaning it up. Evidence will likely help with your marital situation – unless it’s larger than mold! Work on your immune system and make sure no other antigens are smoking in your body.
cp
Dr. Parker,
I hope that you don’t mind that I took the liberty of posting a link to your site at the toxboard. Many interested parties contribute and go there for info.
I am one of the “afflicted” and the scorn and disdain that I met with while trying to get medical assistance was nearly as debilitating as the illness itself.
I went from being in grad school, working in the secondary school system, pursuing other business matters to homeless, jobless, and without any healthcare in short order. Not such a far step down after all.
Hopefully you, and the others like you, will continue to shine light on this dark and damp subject.
Many thanks for taking the time to look at the big picture. I had 4 docs, 2 ENTs, 2 related to me that it was not possible to have a fungal infection of the sinus. My pointing out the Mayo Clinic article in the JAMA only earned me further disdain, with 1 doc calling me in and saying he didn’t want to be my doctor anymore. Guess I am a troublemaker.
It is refreshing to see a Doctor like you acknowledge that these matters have been overlooked. I don’t want a doctor that is omniscient, just one who will say, “HMM, I don’t know, let me find out and what info do you have to contribute.”; after all, I have a vested interest in my survival and its quality.
Interestingly enough, I have tried to pass this info on for years to the mental health care professionals as I read more and more about the health problems of Vietnam Veterans as they related to the symptoms I experienced due to chemical poisoning. Light bulb went off when I realized that not only were they exposed to the various rain agents (see Charles Kelley’s book), but also the incredible fungii in that tropical setting of Vietnam. Double whammy.
I am sure that you and your willing peers will bring a breath of fresh air into this overlooked phenomenon.
Later,
Deborah
Hey Jack,
You have an interesting website, looks like you are well informed about the forensic downstream effects of mold. Please feel free to share your experiences in rendering expert testimony regarding mold and other neurotoxins.
Open conversations on these matters are welcome here, and will be appreciated by the readers, so feel free to chime in on these next posts as we cover some of the mold basics.
-And mold is but one of the issues. Stay tuned for mosquito spray.
Look forward to hearing more from your perspective.
Chuck
Dr. Parker: Enjoyed your comments. I have seen many people with toxic exposure, molds include, with the same neurocognitive dysfunctions for the many years I have been studying the subject.
Please put me on your e-mail list for updates.
Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Thanks Banaca and Mrs Kramer-
When I first read about this subject I was overwhelmed by the positive response from patients subsequent to simply asking specific mold oriented questions. -Also surprised how predictably the questions were answered as we talked further about their exposure and downstream medical issues following.
So many of these mold neurotoxic folks have chronic, “incurable” psych problems. They are considered “head jobs” simply because so many have vague unmanageable psych problems that appear unresponsive to the typical psych meds. As you know, this is my favorite theme.
I am very careful with my medical colleagues on this one, as I can remember how many times I didn’t ask the questions previously, and hate to think of the many I have missed with mold damage over the years.
Having said that, I also think we have to put the mold in context. Mold can be the primary cause, and it can also significantly aggravate other conditions with a pre-existing autoimmune presentation. All of these matters require the snapshot from 40,000 feet to see both the forest and the trees.
Will look tonight, Mrs K, at the sites your referenced and do have much more in the files on this subject.
Thanks for your comments, will have another mold post out tomorrow AM,
Chuck
Thanks so much for this one, Doc! I had a similar experience with the SPECT scans, except that I already knew I’d been exposed to a lot of mold. Thanks to having the scans done, I am receiving additional treatment previously overlooked. We call it “brain fog”, but the psychiatrist who did the scans called it ADD and treated it.
I’m so tired of hearing people say they’ve been in moldy buildings, then turn right around and say the psychologist they were sent to because of behavioral changes told them they have PTSD or depression. All the counseling in the world won’t make the mold go away, and it doesn’t get them to knowledgeable medical doctor for the help they need.
I do hope you’ll write more on this topic!
Dear Dr. Parker,
Thank you for helping to bring to light that an atypical exposure to mold may cause neurocognitive difficulties. For those of us who have experienced this, yet were told by less enlightened physicians this is an impossibility, your writing is breath of fresh air. (pun intended).
Because there is financial liability for stakeholders of moldy buildings when these illnesses occur, there is strong resistance to getting this information out to physicians. There is much politics in medicine over the mold issue.
It it quite frightening for one to be able to feel that something physical is causing brain fog, yet not only be unable to obtain treatment from physicians, but in many cases be down right disrespected and laughed at by the misinformed. Quite often the sick are mistreated with great distain by unenlightened doctors. I know of several mothers who have frantically taken their children from doctor to doctor looking for help, only to be labeled by the medical community has having Muncheausen Syndrome by Proxy. I even known of a few that Child Protective Services have stepped in on the advice of misinformed physicians and attempted to take the sick children from the worried mothers. It is a tragic and disturbing situation.
As an illustation of the mindset that fuels the misinfo, below is an April Fools Day Spoof that is linked to the FDA Website. The jest being made is that the ex-pastry chef at the White House, Roland Mesnier, has determined toxic gelatin molds cause memory loss. The spoof is actually written by a board member of the American College of Occupational and Environmental Medicine and the Executive Director of the Assocation of Occupational and Environmental Clinics. Both are funded to treat environmental illnesses by NIOSH and ASTDR. These organizations drive much of the national understanding of mold induced illnesses.
The Spoof was shared via the internet with thousands of health professionals on April 1, 2007. For those of us who have experienced the devastation at the hands of such physician mindset regarding “Mold Madness”, this April Fool’s Day spoof by gov’t funded occupational physicians groups is about as funny as Catholic priests writing a spoof of pedaphilia and then putting it in the Sunday Church Bulletin.
http://www.occhealthnews.net/fda-mold.htm
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/inforeg/2003iq/66.pdf
blawg.midwestconstructionlaw.com/toxic_torts/index.html
http://www.occhealthnews.net
Yep Lyle, this is a big one. I plan to have some more posts coming up soon with more refs and some specific treatment suggestions.
All mold folk agree, as with your friend: Gotta go! Get outta there! Problem with that solution is the fact that the neurotoxins, those smaller than a cell, lipophilic bandits, rob us blind and mess up our communication systems – over time. They lurk in fat.
Time becomes an important variable, with long term metabolic solutions more necessary to permit full repair.
Thanks for listening – and BTW, will have podcast or two coming up on this as soon as I figure out how to get the iTune load thing done.
Chuck
Holy crap!
A friend of ours, very fit, runner, and cyclist got sick from mold in her Vancouver apartment.
Got better after moving… and about a year of recovery.
Scary stuff!!
Thanks for keeping us posted on this issue.
I had not realized that some are more susceptible than others.
Keep up the fight, Lyle